Here is where I felt uncomfortable: "In the streets, too, were 200 people who demonstrated in support of Hamas outside a Queens, NY, synagogue last week. This did not even pretend to be a pro-Palestinian protest. It was explicitly pro-Hamas. And like ICE officers, those terrorist-supporting traitors are too cowardly to show their faces." The passage draws an analogy: both groups allegedly "hide their faces" during actions (protesters via masks/keffiyehs, ICE via riot gear/helmets). This implies shared "cowardice" in presentation. Was it intentional?
I do not mean, in any way, to minimize the actions of Hamas. I don’t mean that ICE is just as bad as Hamas. I apologize if that’s what it sounded like.
Ah yes, I understand. I wasn’t thinking of the protestors as being Hamas so much as supporting Hamas. But here is where I think the pro-Hamas protesters and ICE are similar: both groups hide their faces and identities, and both groups think terrorist violence is a permissible—nay, necessary—means to their ends. ICE is Trump’s paramilitary; it is unfathomable that “law enforcement officers” hide their faces, wear no identification, have no training, and terrorize people in the streets. I do think that the protestors are cowards for concealing their identities, and that the ICE thugs are too. Of course there are many ways that ICE and Hamas are dissimilar; I just meant to compare the hiding of faces in both ICE and the protestors.
It is my understanding that ICE are hiding their faces because they are afraid for their lives given how they are perceived. What about the fact that they are hated for taking our illegals and criminals?
I agree that their methods are problematic, though.
It is sad that there are some unfortunate misfiring and innocent get caught in the middle, but since they are being obstructed, there is more likelihood for the innocent to suffer. I am I entirely for legal immigration, but not for illegal. We have been interviewed by CIA and finger printed and provided proof of self sufficiency and of not carrying any infectious diseases, waiting in no land for over three months. I don’t understand why it is ok now just to cross the border and get American financial assistance.
I am not justifying ICE but trying to understand what is the alternative.
I don't understand how a heavily armed militia, given explicit impunity by the White House, facing unarmed protestors, could possibly fear for their lives. I'm sure that police officers sometimes fear for their lives--especially in a country with lax gun laws like the US--but they aren't allowed to hide their identities to do their jobs. Why should it be different for ICE?
But the larger problem is that ICE is not focused on undocumented people. They have been abducting (and shooting, and killing) American citizens. They don't have warrants for arrest. They have quotas. Stephen Miller wants them detaining 3,000 people each day (last I heard). Even if they were somehow focused only on undocumented immigrants, their methods, as you note, are BAD. The solution to immigration is not to threaten, to terrorize, or to scoop with a large net and hope you catch a couple of the fish you want. It is not to disappear people into a system of prisons with no accountability, where even their families can't find out where they are. It's not to tear children from their families, leaving toddlers to "defend" themselves in a court of law.
The witness testimonies coming out of Minneapolis, by ordinary people, have been astonishing. I highly recommend seeking some out.
In July, the Senate voted to triple ICE's budget, taking basic health care away from 12-17 million American citizens to do so.
Most immigrants follow LEGAL avenues for immigration. From the Brennan Center for Justice: "The so-called One Big Beautiful Act allocates more than $170 billion over four years for border and interior enforcement, with a stated goal of deporting 1 million immigrants each year. That is more than the yearly budget for all local and state law enforcement agencies combined across the entire United States. The bill adds billions of dollars to border enforcement, but the largest percentage increase goes to finding, arresting, detaining, and deporting immigrants already living in the U.S., most of whom have not committed a crime and many of whom have had lawful status."
There needs to be a structure for immigration, of course. And I believe in welcoming the stranger--in the ancient, sacred norms of hospitality. "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses"--this is America.
Where does this information come from regarding witness testimonies?
Where can I read these (in official sources not social media)?
What about all these illegals that were crossing the border during Biden/Harris administration? Didn’t they create this chaos that makes innocent people to suffer now?
What about Walz’s complete incompetence that lead to the financial fraud by Somalis?
Ohio also had a large number of Somalis but they came vetted, not so in Minnesota.
What about health care given to illegals in my own state of California that is not just a hearsay?
I am not justifying any abuse including by ICE, but I am asking what is the best way to clean the mess created by Biden/Harris administration?
Everything gets so twisted. Thanks Sara, for unraveling the threads.
It really does. Thanks Mary! I’m trying my best.
Here is where I felt uncomfortable: "In the streets, too, were 200 people who demonstrated in support of Hamas outside a Queens, NY, synagogue last week. This did not even pretend to be a pro-Palestinian protest. It was explicitly pro-Hamas. And like ICE officers, those terrorist-supporting traitors are too cowardly to show their faces." The passage draws an analogy: both groups allegedly "hide their faces" during actions (protesters via masks/keffiyehs, ICE via riot gear/helmets). This implies shared "cowardice" in presentation. Was it intentional?
I do not mean, in any way, to minimize the actions of Hamas. I don’t mean that ICE is just as bad as Hamas. I apologize if that’s what it sounded like.
I understand.
Ah yes, I understand. I wasn’t thinking of the protestors as being Hamas so much as supporting Hamas. But here is where I think the pro-Hamas protesters and ICE are similar: both groups hide their faces and identities, and both groups think terrorist violence is a permissible—nay, necessary—means to their ends. ICE is Trump’s paramilitary; it is unfathomable that “law enforcement officers” hide their faces, wear no identification, have no training, and terrorize people in the streets. I do think that the protestors are cowards for concealing their identities, and that the ICE thugs are too. Of course there are many ways that ICE and Hamas are dissimilar; I just meant to compare the hiding of faces in both ICE and the protestors.
It is my understanding that ICE are hiding their faces because they are afraid for their lives given how they are perceived. What about the fact that they are hated for taking our illegals and criminals?
I agree that their methods are problematic, though.
It is sad that there are some unfortunate misfiring and innocent get caught in the middle, but since they are being obstructed, there is more likelihood for the innocent to suffer. I am I entirely for legal immigration, but not for illegal. We have been interviewed by CIA and finger printed and provided proof of self sufficiency and of not carrying any infectious diseases, waiting in no land for over three months. I don’t understand why it is ok now just to cross the border and get American financial assistance.
I am not justifying ICE but trying to understand what is the alternative.
I don't understand how a heavily armed militia, given explicit impunity by the White House, facing unarmed protestors, could possibly fear for their lives. I'm sure that police officers sometimes fear for their lives--especially in a country with lax gun laws like the US--but they aren't allowed to hide their identities to do their jobs. Why should it be different for ICE?
But the larger problem is that ICE is not focused on undocumented people. They have been abducting (and shooting, and killing) American citizens. They don't have warrants for arrest. They have quotas. Stephen Miller wants them detaining 3,000 people each day (last I heard). Even if they were somehow focused only on undocumented immigrants, their methods, as you note, are BAD. The solution to immigration is not to threaten, to terrorize, or to scoop with a large net and hope you catch a couple of the fish you want. It is not to disappear people into a system of prisons with no accountability, where even their families can't find out where they are. It's not to tear children from their families, leaving toddlers to "defend" themselves in a court of law.
The witness testimonies coming out of Minneapolis, by ordinary people, have been astonishing. I highly recommend seeking some out.
In July, the Senate voted to triple ICE's budget, taking basic health care away from 12-17 million American citizens to do so.
Most immigrants follow LEGAL avenues for immigration. From the Brennan Center for Justice: "The so-called One Big Beautiful Act allocates more than $170 billion over four years for border and interior enforcement, with a stated goal of deporting 1 million immigrants each year. That is more than the yearly budget for all local and state law enforcement agencies combined across the entire United States. The bill adds billions of dollars to border enforcement, but the largest percentage increase goes to finding, arresting, detaining, and deporting immigrants already living in the U.S., most of whom have not committed a crime and many of whom have had lawful status."
There needs to be a structure for immigration, of course. And I believe in welcoming the stranger--in the ancient, sacred norms of hospitality. "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses"--this is America.
Where does this information come from regarding witness testimonies?
Where can I read these (in official sources not social media)?
What about all these illegals that were crossing the border during Biden/Harris administration? Didn’t they create this chaos that makes innocent people to suffer now?
What about Walz’s complete incompetence that lead to the financial fraud by Somalis?
Ohio also had a large number of Somalis but they came vetted, not so in Minnesota.
What about health care given to illegals in my own state of California that is not just a hearsay?
I am not justifying any abuse including by ICE, but I am asking what is the best way to clean the mess created by Biden/Harris administration?
I haven't had a chance to reply yet, but I wanted you to know that I'm not ignoring your comments.
No worries.
Did I understand you correctly, you define ICE in the same terms as Hamas?
Sorry, what did I say that suggested that?